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Talk:Elite Tome
That's just sooo cool! I wonder what the price is going to be at the traders?! ^^--JP 14:40, 19 April 2007 (CDT) :I highly doubt you can get them from traders.--SBR 15:19, 19 April 2007 (CDT) :: I was thinking from rare scroll traders would probably take them and sell them on. ;o) --JP 16:10, 19 April 2007 (CDT) :::I wouldn't be surprised if traders don't buy them.BigAstro 16:17, 19 April 2007 (CDT) Huh drops em ? What will drop Elite Tome's in hard mode ? : Wait and see. BigAstro 14:37, 19 April 2007 (CDT) ::I wonder if learning the elite will count towards skill hunter? Lord of all tyria 14:39, 19 April 2007 (CDT) :::I clearly wasted my time for skill hunter :p--Blade (talk| ) 14:41, 19 April 2007 (CDT) ::::It might not, and the cynic in me says it'll be easier to just go cap it anyway. Lord of all tyria 14:43, 19 April 2007 (CDT) :::::We really don't know yet, but just like everything else, I bet they're going to be ridiculous expensive for a few months.. then someone figures out how to farm them and they plummet to a reasonable price. Then it becomes, "Do I want to take my Paragon half-way through factions to get a skill or do I just wanna pay a few plat and buy the skill tome?" BigAstro 14:51, 19 April 2007 (CDT) ::::::I think their most important use might be to let a new PVE char learn a good Elite or 2 early on. And yes, Elites learned that way will certainly count towards Skill Hunter. If they wouldn't, just using 2 of these would make it impossible to attain max skill hunter, counting Junundu Siege. -- Roland of Gilead (talk) 16:53, 19 April 2007 (CDT) :::::::Perhaps they will be semi-common, but cost extra gold (say 3-5k) or multiple skills points per use. Kind of like a skill trainer in your pocket. ::::::::I think an important thing to realize is that by using one of these, you lose out on the 5,000 xp from an Elite capture. On very easily capped Elites like Word of Healing, Palm Strike, Burning Arrow, etc. using an Elite Tome is silliness. :::::::::It's not silliness if a new lvl 1 character gets an Elite before even doing the first mission on the beginner's isle. You will be hard pressed to cap an Elite of your choice in the first explorable area, no? -- Roland of Gilead (talk) 04:42, 20 April 2007 (CDT) *An Elite tome costs you: Some platinum. *A Capture costs you: Time, 1k, and a Skillpoint. ::::::::Unless you are very hard-pressed for Skillpoints (Factions or NF characters...Prophecies not so much), it is therefore usually in your favor to just capture a skill. The big exceptions will be things like the Avatar skills (runners to cap those ALL the time), Feast of Corruption, Shadow Prison, and also very popular Elites like Moebius Strike and Searing Flames...not necessarily a hard or long cap, but just wanted for new characters immediately for Pwnage. So, the Elite Tome does bring some new options to the table, but by and large (unless they are really common drops) I would always take SoC instead. Besides - buying SoC and actually capping gets you out into the world, so you can work on Quests, Explorer title, Survivor title (sometimes), Treasure Hunter...etc, all at the same time. Simply buying and using a Tome won't do that. (T/ ) 21:56, 19 April 2007 (CDT) :::::::::I hate the Factions campaign. I've completed it with my ranger(and I really do mean completed it, protector, all elites capped, all quests done except 1, maybe 2), and I have NO intention of ever playing though that awful campaign again. I don't want to quest there, I don't want to exlore there(my ranger's at 91.7%, that's really all of Cantha I need to see), and I certainly don't wanna play through Vizunah, Nahpui, Arborstone, all the primary quests required to ACCESS those missions, etc. Now, here's the problem, there are elites I want in late game factions for my rit, and there are a couple of elites I want for my assassin. Now, I could play those characters through the entire boring campaign again, or I could shell out a few plat and get the skills I want without ever having to go to Cantha again. So for me, there's really no contest there at all, in this instance, tomes>>>>>capping. DKS01 09:23, 21 April 2007 (CDT) ::::::::::and paragons have no elites in factions :P--71.195.42.77 22:21, 20 April 2007 (CDT) To stop indenting (:P), I am so using this on my ele for savanna heat, bsurge, and invoke lightning.--Nog64Talk 22:02, 19 April 2007 (CDT) A question... According the the GW web site it states "to learn any elite profession skill already unlocked on your account", my question is this, if you've got one character highly advanced on the Skill Hunter title, won't this effectively "copy" that title across to another character when they use this tome? --Wolfie (talk| ) 22:18, 19 April 2007 (CDT) :If you have 90 of these, and a cahracter with every profession unlocked, then yes.--Nog64Talk 22:22, 19 April 2007 (CDT) ::Was more thinking of those that have managed to reach the Expert Skill Hunter rank or above. If that is the case, might inflate the price of these Tomes above what the "average" player could afford. --Wolfie (talk| ) 22:44, 19 April 2007 (CDT) ::EDIT: - Just read the Games Update page on the GW web site, the tomes are "profession specific", so one tome will NOT "copy" all the available elites. This is a much better approach, and resolves my concerns. --Wolfie (talk| ) 22:56, 19 April 2007 (CDT) :::Eh, what will happen is that to "copy" a Title like that you need craploads of these, over 150 (I think). Assuming a low cost of 3k, that is still a staggering total cost of three times more what it costs on SoC captures alone. Sure, rich folks out there can afford such extravagence. But really in the end, what it means is that (A) Demand goes through the roof. (B) Hard Mode gains huge popularity for farming these, if possible. © Prices necessarily stay high, like with Black Dye and Superior Vigor, because even though there's a healthy supply, they will be hard to get due to randomness...and because like rare mods, players can sell for whatever they want. (D) Eventually prices stabilize because enough will have been used by the very rich, and the novelty wears off. (E) Many players will still use SoC, either because they are first-time aquirers of rare skills like BSurge, or because they are poor. (T/ ) 22:49, 19 April 2007 (CDT) ::::I don't think the prices will stay high like black dye/sup vigor, because there is more than one way to acquire the elite skills, and if the price gets too high, then most people are likely to opt for just spending the 1k+skill point on the SoCRiveted 13:25, 21 April 2007 (CDT) Uses and title track One dropped in Great Northern Wall for a guildie. He's confirmed that it adds to the title of the campaign of the skill you choose, with core adding 1 point for each title. He's also confirmed the one use. --Destillat 02:26, 20 April 2007 (CDT) :Did using it cost him a skill point? --Heurist 05:01, 20 April 2007 (CDT) Stacking Has anyone collected enough Tomes to know if they stack? And if so, how? For example, do two Ranger Elite Tomes stack? -- AnticDevices 09:31, 20 April 2007 (CDT) :The non-elite tomes stack, so I would assume the elites do too. --Theeth (talk) 11:22, 20 April 2007 (CDT) :: Cool, thanks! -- AnticDevices 11:38, 20 April 2007 (CDT) ::: I got two Ranger Elite tomes, and i can confirm they stack. --Xaphan67 03:56, 22 May 2007 (CDT) Capturing elites vs Elite tome The value of tomes might only be that it doesnt cost a skill point, when you consider: 1. The toning down of 'normal mode' will make it easier to cap skills. Simply switch over to normal mode when you want an elite. 2. Its still only possible to get these tones as drops from bosses and chests, therefore it will be rare so acquiring a mass of these will be difficult even if you had enough money. If you spent a lot of time and effort capping every elite in the game, how can we begrudge you using a few of these to give your other characters some of those elites? So I think 'copying' a skill hunter title to a lvl 1 char will be extremely difficult and a complete waste of money and xp in my opinion. So fear of this happening is a bit premature. There are always ways to get around hard graft but lets stop worrying about what other are doing and just enjoy the great new features of hard mode. 196.25.255.214 11:19, 20 April 2007 (CDT) ZAM :Well, ANet doesn't like it when people instantaneously give their chars stuff, so my guess this is for people who have unlocked a skill on another char or with Balth faction and need it on another char (for an example I already gave, I need Savannah Heat for my ele, and she is not far enough in Nightfall to get it. So, a tome is a very good option).--Nog64Talk 16:47, 20 April 2007 (CDT) Basically an easy way to obtain elites advanced in campaigns, very useful. [[User:Solus| Solus]] 19:33, 20 April 2007 (CDT) :It comes down to an easy (but expensive) method and a hard (but cheaper) method. I know I'd certainly rather pay 30-40k instead of getting my monk to droks, run to the granite citadel, find a group, and cap Shield of Judgement. ~Avatarian 86 01:01, 21 April 2007 (CDT) ::I need Warriors Endurance, but thats a boss who appears only somtimes, and only after I've already beaten half the mission. 3,000 Balthazar, Elite Skill Tome, POOF! Urock 12:51, 21 April 2007 (CDT) What if I find like 7 Ritualist Non-elite Tomes and 1 Ritualist Elite Tome? Can I make full Ritualist build even if he is level 2? That would be so cool... - — [[User:Abedeus|'Abedeus']] 03:39, 21 April 2007 (CDT) :You don't really need the non-elite tomes. Just buy the skills from the beginner town trainer after you have unlocked them. You only need the elite tome. -- Roland of Gilead (talk) 03:46, 21 April 2007 (CDT) ::Well, I guess they non-elite tomes would also be needed if the skills in question are Nightfall skills. (Also low level chars would lack skillpoints to buy the skills anyway.) -Taala 05:36, 21 April 2007 (CDT) :::You won't find any tomes when low lvl... You can't kill the monsters in hard mode, and then they won't drop anything! ~ DriXiLB 05:42, 21 April 2007 (CDT) ::::No, but you could buy em off other players, or as Solus says below, get as drops while using other chars in HM. --Wolfie (talk| ) 06:24, 21 April 2007 (CDT) :::::I'm figuring that the non-elite tomes will cost something close to 1k Riveted 13:21, 21 April 2007 (CDT) ::::::probebly because: how would buy an non-elite tome for 2k while you can buy your skills from skill trainer for just 1k. but elite tomes are worth a lot more i think maybe you think SoC is also 1k your right but most plp are to lazy to travel from factions to prophecies then do the Thunderhead keep mission just to get to ring of fire isle to cap Echo or something like thatFox007 15:41, 22 April 2007 (CDT) :::By the way, if you unlock skills on a character/account that doesn't have the campaign in question (your statement seems to imply that you can get Nightfall skills for characters that do no thave Nightfall), you gain the skill but it is greyed out and unusable until you purchase Nightfall. -Scyfer 21:51, 28 April 2007 (CDT) Get on other accounts... [[User:Solus| Solus]] 06:11, 21 April 2007 (CDT) i'd really like to help making this wiki better, but the only thing i can do atm is giving you this picture of an monk elite tome: http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1344/karteab7.jpg cya Wow. Now I can finally have RC and Fevered Dreams without having to go through all that stupid Ring of Fire-random-bosses-keke-proph-hates-you crap. 08:36, 22 April 2007 (CDT) People are selling these for 15k, which to me seems like a total rip.--Bloo Kazoo 23:50, 22 April 2007 (CDT) :i donno, i might pay 15k to not have to go out to taska's demise and cap again. --Honorable Sarah image:Honorable_Icon.gif 23:53, 22 April 2007 (CDT) ::What's in Tasca's Demise that can't be capped elsewhere? I have all the Prophecies skills and I've never captured anything in that zone. Were you referring to going through that zone into Mineral Springs to cap? -Gildan Bladeborn 15:47, 16 May 2007 (CDT) Tomes are another bad "good idea". It just makes the Skill Hunter track useless. Any rich guy who has no skill at the game but has a lot of time to farm will eventually get the title. Before these tomes arrived, you HAD to send a character over there and actually capture the skill. And some of them are not THAT easy to get... Now, all you have to do is spend 3000 balthazar points (easy enough to get them even with no skill), and some cash. pfff... Anet would have done a better job if the tomes would unlock only captured (as opposed to unlocked) skill. Easy to make the difference : if the skill belongs to any of your PvE character, it has been captured... Just like one of your PvE character acting as a tutor to another... oh well... Will display legendary cartographer instead now ; at least this title is still clean! Yves 08:16, 23 April 2007 (CDT) :The equivalent here to capping 290 skills, is to spend at least 3mil gold, and up to 1mil balth faction. yeah, it's partially buyable, but it is still an impressive effort. some would even say that I, who capped all of the skills, have chosen the easy way out. [[User:Foo|'Foo']] 08:42, 23 April 2007 (CDT) ::Actually, nobody would spend that much money and balt points, I agree ; but now you can easily cap those easy 80 first skills (say you're in Tyria), and buy those last 10 which you were unable to get before, either because you could not complete a mission, or because you found the boss too difficult to reach or defeat. So, You'll easily get the last 10% difficult elite by paying 300k (oh well! how much is that ?) and 100000 balt (yeah ; can takes some time, but no skill at all!). Yves 05:36, 24 April 2007 (CDT) :::If I had that much money, I can just pay a 7-man team to kill everything between me and the boss, and capture that last 10% of the skills I'm missing. Heck, if someone is willing to pay me 10k, I'd go do Mineral Springs with 3 heroes and 3 henchies with him and kill the boss for him to cap, all he has to do is die when all my folks die so we can respawn at the res shrine. That's probably easier AND faster for him than getting the Bal factions (unless there is an overabundence of Flame of Balthazar. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 06:22, 24 April 2007 (CDT) ::::Right ; but such a transaction may take some time, and you're not even sure the other guy will keep his promise (he could be incompetent, he could take your money and run, he could have to disconnect before the completion, name it...) Just see the Droknar runs troubles... Better to do it on your own if you can! Gaining 3000 balt should be done within less than 2 hours of arena play, even if you're really incompetent! The time to find the right guy, negociatiting, getting there etc... and maybe retrying should something go amiss is likely to be much more! I've done arena for the sole reason to unlock some (20, 30 ?) basic skills for heroes! People WILL do it to put their hands on a title... Yves 08:20, 24 April 2007 (CDT) :::::I never thought much of the skill hunter title at all, often you're acquiring skills that make NO sense on a single character. This is one title I always thought should be account based, if you have every skill in the game unlocked and thus likely more applicable characters to boot. Though I suppose GW ruins that model with the ability to buy the pvp skill pack for a chapter. Still I'm always more about functional, so why one is capping the primary elites from another class they can never effectively use... eh whatever. You already have survivor 3 for patting someone on the back for over-capping lol --CKaz 16:50, 24 April 2007 (CDT) Gallery format Is it just me or do others feel that using the gallery code makes the page kinda... big? — [[User_talk:Kyrasantae|'kyrasantae']] 23:44, 21 April 2007 (CDT) :It looked big to start with >_> -- Xeon 23:46, 21 April 2007 (CDT) ::It feels like a lot of wasted whitespace right now, since the images use up only a quarter of the size of the gallery box. Maybe we could whip up something like the icons gallery in the Miniatures page. — [[User_talk:Kyrasantae|'kyrasantae']] 23:50, 21 April 2007 (CDT) :::Well, once MW 1.10 is released (and out for a couple weeks) I can upgrade us and then you can set image height and width for galleries. But that might not be for a while. --Fyren 00:00, 22 April 2007 (CDT) Skill Hunter Well, I've used 2 of these now(1 rit, 1 assn), and neither character had his skill hunter track go up. Is it not working like it's supposed to or what? I'm not aiming for the title on either character so I don't care, just wondered if I'd found a bug or something. DKS01 19:29, 25 April 2007 (CDT) :Just a wild guess, but I'd imagine its a bug and the title will increase by to include skills acquired via the elite tomes the next time you capture one from a boss using an SoC. That was the case for the LB signet, so it seems likely that a similar bug arose. Mechasoupx 20:04, 25 April 2007 (CDT) ::When I used a Mesmer one a few days ago it did update my title progression. RossMM 06:21, 27 April 2007 (CDT) :::Maybe it acts like Lightbringer Signet and isn't counted until you capture another skill?--Devils Apprentice 11:53, 29 April 2007 (CDT) ::::Well now I don't know what's going on. The first rit tome I used(to get Ritual Lord) didn't start me on the Canthan elite track(I have capped 0 elites with my rit). I used a second one to get Spirit's Strength though, now it shows me as being on both Elonian and Canthan Skill Hunter tracks. Still haven't capped any elites with him either. Combine with Non-Elite Tome seems liek most people will be going to skill tomes to figure out what they are.. I'd rather see the Elite Tome page and Non-Elite Tome pages redirect to a common page with general info and then just both tables of pics. This isn't a topic that is likely to grow so I don't see the value in two seprate pages, in fact it seems more confusing. But, I'm guessing I will be in the minority on that so I am simply posting it as a sugestion. :/agree --Soulflame 03:21, 29 April 2007 (CDT) I definatly agree as well. They are effectively the same thing except one unlocks elites, and the other unlocks normal skills. They don't need two different pages --Archmage 16:20, 17 May 2007 (CDT) Elite Tomes restricted to your own profession? Are Elite (and non, but I've only heard of elite) tomes usable by any profession, or are you, say, restricted to using a monk tome if you are a monk, etc? Forum posts indicate yes, but I have not had this confirmed, first hand or on here. --Scyfer 21:53, 28 April 2007 (CDT) :As long as either your primary or secondary profession is that of the tome, you can use it. — [[User_talk:Kyrasantae|'kyrasantae']] 22:20, 28 April 2007 (CDT) What do people feel as being the hardest elite to cap in the game? Nominations: * Feast of Corruption It totally surprised me how much somebody was willing to pay for a necro elite tome. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 08:38, 29 April 2007 (CDT) :FoC is easy, got to and killed Maw with no problems. On a Paragon, sadly no necro secondary =[ Napalm Flame 17:36, 3 June 2007 (CDT) You can easily hench you way there and cap it, it's location used to be the only problem :) Ritty elite tomes for VWK seems to be at high demand. [[User:Solus| Solus]] 08:40, 29 April 2007 (CDT) :I personally agree with you, but then, I personally don't think any elite tome is worth 1 plat. Can you wikify VWK please? -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 08:41, 29 April 2007 (CDT) FoC is easy as hell, its not what is the hardest to cap, but what requires the most effort. To get Restore Condition and Shield of Deflection I had to get my canthan monk a run to beacons and droks and then do all the chain of missions and then wait for random spawns inside the missions themselves to get my elites. Moebius and vengeful ashes are similarly annoying, got to play all the way through cantha to get to them. — Skuld 08:43, 29 April 2007 (CDT) VWK. It's quite fare into the campaign, while used for UW quite often which is easily reached. [[User:Solus| Solus]] 08:47, 29 April 2007 (CDT) Feast of Corruption isn't hard to cap, it just takes awhile to go out and get it. IMO, the very worst ones are several of the endgame Prophecies ones that only spawn in missions, and that AREN'T guaranteed spawns. I'm talking for example Restore Conditions, Fevered Dreams, and Soul Leech...to cap the three of those I must have had to play through most of Abbadon's Mouth a dozen or more times. Getting late game Factions ones can be a bit of a hassle as well, since you have to practically beat the entire boring campaign to get to them. I certainly didn't mind paying 10k to get my rit Ritual Lord, since it means I don't have to play through Factions again... Price wise, I routinely see warrior tomes being sold for high prices, not sure what highly desired war elites they're being --Vortexsam 05:17, 3 June 2007 (CDT)used for though. DKS01 00:58, 30 April 2007 (CDT) :Backbreaker, Earth Shaker (to a lesser extent) — Skuld 02:39, 30 April 2007 (CDT) I think the biggest draw of these is not getting an elite that is 'hard' to cap, but one you would have to wait ages to get to. These include the Dryder ones in the Abaddon's Mouth mission that have already been mentioned, and the elites in the Depths of Madness which you can only reach right before the final fight in Nightfall (and so relatively useless for quest-based PvE for a char who has done the previous two campaigns). RossMM 05:14, 30 April 2007 (CDT) I agree with everything three posts up. Endgame ones are hard to cap, especially proph just because they may not spwwn, and u have mobs of 8 lvl 22-28s (Mahgo Hydra+Flesh Golems anyone?). Nhnowell 17:16, 1 May 2007 (CDT) If you want a real clue as to why the Necromancer tomes are so expensive, I think I can shed some light on this. I'm not aware of a level requirement to use these and I'm sure low level Necromancers would love to get their hands on SS or Flesh Golem as Early as possible. -67.172.14.127 20:19, 4 May 2007 (CDT) FoC is an easy cap imo. the hardest cap in the game has to be Moebius Strike, as it requires 10k kurzick faction to get (which many people, like myself, will find hard to get) ~Soqed Hozi~ 18:04, 7 May 2007 (CDT) :You can get it without getting 10k Kurzick faction, though it still requires you to be at the end of Factions to do so which is a chore in and of itself. Although how is it hard to get 10k Kurz faction anyway, you can get that easy enough from questing... DKS01 18:18, 7 May 2007 (CDT) ::I'm a luxon. ~Soqed Hozi~ 10:41, 8 May 2007 (CDT) ::::Umm, so? I'm a Luxon too. Being a Luxon doesn't stop you from gaining Kurz faction dude. DKS01 19:09, 8 May 2007 (CDT) :::I got 10k luxon to do gyala hatchery and I'm a kurzick....honestly 10k faction is easy. Lord of all tyria 10:43, 8 May 2007 (CDT) Aura of the Lich strikes me as the hardest skill in the game to cap. You only can pick it off at the last mission at end-game Prophs, and end-game Prophs is the longest hardest, most time consuming place to get to. Isis In De Nile 17:15, 12 May 2007 (CDT) ::End game Proph is the hardest??? A lvl 2 can get there. Get run to Thunderhead, then do the three RoF missions. That makes only four missions needed to cap Aura of the Lich. Much less than any of the other campaign end-game skills.--Sykoone 17:27, 12 May 2007 (CDT) :::so what if a level 2 can get there... you made one of the most retarded comments i have ever seen. you have no basis for arguement and a shitty point. End proph is hard. Who cares if a level 2 can get there. Sure i can go take an honors class if i want does that mean its not hard?-- ''Echo Ftw'' (talk| ) 15:26, 16 May 2007 (CDT) I always thought that the dryder skills (Fevered Dreams, Restore Condition and Soul Leech) were quite easy to get. Whenever I went out all three of the dryder bosses were there so I was able to get them all in two goes (Mesmer primary). The single hardest elite skill to capture is Jagged Bones. I swear to god if I ever want that on another character I'm doing it via tome. Rubikon 14:11, 16 May 2007 (CDT) :Once I got to where those skills were available, I had to go through Abbaddon's Mouth over a DOZEN times to get those 3 skills. That's "quite easy to get"? In comparison, once I got to where Jagged Bones was available I got it in about 10 minutes. DKS01 07:34, 17 May 2007 (CDT) ::Well I can only speak for myself but every time I have been through Abaddon's Mouth all the dryder bosses have been there. The wind rider bosses in the Ring of Fire on the other hand... Rubikon 15:19, 17 May 2007 (CDT) :Jagged Bones is a hysterically easy skill to capture. It just takes a considerable investment to get to the Realm of Torment, and the foresight to do Drink of the Gods and then Dark Gateway (while sporting a signet). You walk outside of Gate of Nightfallen Jahai, deal with 1 group of torment creatures, and then use ranged attacks against the boss for the Dark Gateway quest. He doesn't even defend himself, he just sits there and dies. -Gildan Bladeborn 16:05, 16 May 2007 (CDT) ::A very good point. I wasn't aware of that. In that case I nominate no elite skills as being the hardest to get. Except possibly Stunning Strike although someone'll probably tell me a ridiculously easy to get that one next. Rubikon 06:17, 17 May 2007 (CDT) Probably because everyone has already capped it: Eviscerate. It's either the last mission of Prophecies or somewhere deep in SF. --Vortexsam 05:17, 3 June 2007 (CDT) Newbie Islands Do all bosses drop Elite Tomes, even the ones in newbie islands like Shing Jea? Because for the last few... hours I have been killing Tahkayun Tsi trying to get an Elite Sin Tome and all I've gotten are 4 levels and 4 FoW scrolls >_> Amagawd 17:43, 6 May 2007 (CDT) :As long as you are in hard mode, any boss will. Got a bunch of mine from charr bosses. — Skuld 17:55, 6 May 2007 (CDT) ::What build do you use to farm the charr? or do u just take hench? :::I thought only bosses with elite skills can drop them? Otherwise everyone would be farming the 2 stone golems bosses outside Sardelac Saniterium --Blue.rellik 01:17, 9 June 2007 (CDT) ::::You thought wrong, ANY boss can drop them, as has already been stated. DKS01 03:55, 9 June 2007 (CDT) New item I think that the introduction of these tomes will fill GW with lazy players that buy them instead of capturing elites. They are not so useful as they could seem. --'GlennThePaladin' (Talk, ) 12:44, 9 May 2007 (CDT) :If you are rich enough to buy an elite tome for every skill, you've played enough and earned enough to warrant laziness. -138.86.163.139 12:49, 9 May 2007 (CDT) ::Or you bought gold online. DKS01 16:39, 9 May 2007 (CDT) :::Then you're rich enough IRL to warrant said laziness. -Auron 16:42, 9 May 2007 (CDT) ::::And unscrupulous enough in both to warrant my general derision. -Gildan Bladeborn 16:07, 16 May 2007 (CDT) :I think the real reason Anet added these is because there is simply too much for casual players to do anymore. :*Consider Prophecies only, 6 professions X 1 campaign = 6 campaign runs to complete. :*With the release of Factions, 8 professions X 2 campaigns = 16 total campaign runs to complete, or assuming you have completed Proph with all professions 10 additional campaign runs. :*And Nightfall, 10 professions X 3 campaigns = 30 total campaign runs to complete, or assuming you have completed both Proph and Factions with all professions 14 additional campaign runs. :With each new campaign, not only do you have new characters to fool around with in that campaign, but you also have the previous campaigns for those new characters, AND you have to take your old characters through the new campaign. It's a lot of stuff to do and some people simply don't have time to do it all. Some players in my guild only have 2 or 3 characters because they can only play a few hours a week and don't have time to do everything with even those characters. I think the Tomes were created for exactly this reason, not merely to enable rich people to be lazy. BigAstro 16:49, 16 May 2007 (CDT) :: It's a game. There's no "have to" to any of it, unless you're ADHD... :::Bringing up semantic issues is pointless. My meaning is clear. BigAstro 14:02, 2 June 2007 (CDT) ::::Well, if you have a Warrior who beat Prophecies you (well I) wouldn't likely make another Warrior in, say, Factions. If you made your first Warrior in Factions, then you don't NEED to go through Prophecies- like anon said. Even if you had one character of every class, they would not have skills from all campaigns. To use an Elite tome, you need 3,000 Balthazar Faction or having capped it before. So they aren't for people who have very little time. They: A) Don't have any tomes, B) Haven't capped the skill before, or C) Don't feel like getting 3,000 faction. The tomes are for lazy, PvX players who don't want to capture Shield of Judgement for their 55 Monk after capping it on their N/Mo who happened to be passing through. -- Skax459 14:20, 2 June 2007 (CDT) :::::The tomes were definitely added, at least in part, for players who play on a limited basis. It has little to do with being lazy. You make capping SoJ sound like a trivial task that any player can easily accomplish in a short of amount of time when it's certainly not. It's a minimum of 3 hours for the cap for a non-Prophecies character who is coming to Tyria for the first time and that's assuming you get run the whole way to Citadel. I'll use a better example than SoJ cap too. Suppose Elite Tomes don't exist and suppose that I have necro from NF who wants Spoil Victor and an ele who has completed Factions. My only option is take the necro through 10 hours of the Factions campaign (or obviously just forget about getting the skill). That's more than a lot of people play in a week. But with the tomes, I can just use my ele to cap and unlock SV and then buy the tome for my necro, saving myself 9 and half hours to do other things that I enjoy more. Skill capping is a nice concept, but I think Anet realized it can get tedious to play through an entire campaign for the nth time to get skills. It's a grind and a lot of what the designers were trying to do with GW was to avoid the grinds that are common in other games. I'm not saying that a lot of people using tomes aren't just being lazy, but the reality for a lot of people is that they simply don't have enough time. BigAstro 15:39, 2 June 2007 (CDT) (Resetting indent) Capping Shield of Judgement was hell, especially because I was doing it with one other person, two heroes, and two henchmen. I guess I didn't mean lazy, just bored. If you have no time, you won't be able to afford an Elite-Skill tome. They usually run around 15k, except for Mesmer's tomes who are cheaper. Nobody really wants to capture Feast of Corruption again, but can a casual player afford a 15k tome? If they play like me, never farming, they will not gather the required money. Farming can be very boring, along with time consuming and expensive- getting armor, weapons, skills, etcetera. I, for one, cannot get Tomes (except from generous guildies), so Tomes ARE for the rich. -- Skax459 16:36, 2 June 2007 (CDT) :I know what you mean and you're right, a lot of casual players can't afford tomes. Three things come to mind though. 1) Some casual players do almost nothing but farm. It can be discouraging to create a new character if you're not sure if you'll have the time to dedicate to it, so some people do nothing but farm with their existing characters. I was like that after I made my first character, and a lot of my guildies who only play a few hours a week are the same way. I had one guildie a while back who played probably an hour a night and all he ever did was farm UW with his 55 monk. I'm not sure if he even finished Prophecies, but he had tons of ecto. Point being, he was rather wealthy despite not playing much. He would be the prime candidate for the type of player who would like to get a skill for some new farming build, but wouldn't have the time to get that skill if it was in another campaign. 2) As you mentioned, you can get the tomes from friends for cheap/free, which is fairly common in my guild and I would imagine many others. 3) Even if they're too expensive in practice for some players, it at least provides a way in theory for them to get skills that they would otherwise probably never be able to get which is clearly better that having no way at all. I think Anet added tomes for that reason to help casual players, not to simply make it so the super rich can mildly abuse them and buy skill hunter titles. BigAstro 17:36, 2 June 2007 (CDT) ::Plus, tomes aren't exclusively 15k...I see them go anywhere from 10-12 pretty regularly(and even lower for para and mes, which I see regularly for 8k and as low as 6k occasionally). Beyond that, just playing through with a character, picking up and selling the junk the drops, etc you can very easily get well over 15k. As long as you're not spending the money on 15k armor or rare weapon skins and such it's not hard to get the money for a tome just through regular playing. Even moreso in Factions/NF where you get gold for quests/missions, plus all the stuff you can trade in to quartermasters for scrolls/sup salvage kits which you can then turn around and sell for profit. DKS01 17:49, 2 June 2007 (CDT) I've played my warrior, ele, monk(s), (to a lesser extent dervish and paragon) and ranger through all the campaigns to get skills.. now i'm making my mesmer, i'm farming a bunch of elite tomes so I needn't bother doing any capping at all. I make my PvE chars to PvP with, and this is useful for me ;D — Skuld 17:56, 2 June 2007 (CDT) :I'm also farming tomes for my mesmer. Not because I want to make her into PvP character, but rather because I don't ever want to do Factions again. Call it laziness if you must, but 6 characters through the bullshit city portion of the campaign is more than enough for me forever. BigAstro 18:51, 2 June 2007 (CDT) ::Well I capped expel, and tomed psychic distraction, there are no others that i'll need at any point tbh. — Skuld 04:25, 3 June 2007 (CDT) rv war Anon adds subjective info, Skuld removes it and asks for a source, and the anon adds it back. Anyone wanna talk about it? -Auron 04:38, 3 June 2007 (CDT) :Anon's info doesn't belong here, Skuld is right. Note should be removed as it has no relevancy to the Wiki. There's not a note on Signet of Capture stating that it's commonly abbreviated SoC or Cap Sig, the Shield of Judgment article doesn't note that it's commonly abbreviated SoJ, etc. DKS01 05:14, 3 June 2007 (CDT) ::Not to mention I have NEVER heard that being used. — [[User:JediRogue|'JediRogue']] 05:15, 3 June 2007 (CDT) :::>.> ETome? Never have heard that term before. *Goes in-game to create new word fad* [[User:Readem|'Readem']] (''talk''* ) 05:22, 3 June 2007 (CDT) ::::Admittedly, I've seen heard that term either, I just didn't figure it mattered so didn't note it before(cause even if I HAD seen the term before I don't think it has relevancy to the article itself). DKS01 07:51, 3 June 2007 (CDT) :::::Well this guy seems to think its really important cause he keeps adding it.— [[User:JediRogue|'JediRogue']] 15:25, 3 June 2007 (CDT)